Full transcript: Chris McGoldrick on revolutionising property search with AI
Full transcript
Chris McGoldrick: Thank you, Kylie. Thank you very much for having me on.
Kylie Davis: It's great to have you on, Chris. You guys recently won the PropTech Angel Investment Network Pitch Fest up on the Gold Coast. Congratulations on that. So I'm dying to hear more about ListAssist.
Chris McGoldrick: Thank you very much. Yeah, it was a really fun night, and, uh, looking forward to diving into it some more with you today.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, cool. So kick it... let's kick us off. What is the, uh, ListAssist elevator pitch?
Chris McGoldrick: So ListAssist is an AI business in the real estate industry. And look, our specific focus is on both empowering home buyers and elevating real estate agents.
Kylie Davis: Cool. Okay, so let's dive into that a bit more. How do you do that?
Chris McGoldrick: So the simple answer is, is that we teach real estate websites how to understand human speech.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: So the core problem that we're solving is that the real estate web- uh, sorry, the real estate website experience is, is incredibly limited in terms of search parameters and ability for a user to come in and explain exactly what it is that they want in a home. So if you go across most real estate websites, you'll see you can search by city, zip, maybe suburb, and very few variations of that. Um, and you know, I compare it like I did with the, the PropTech evening, um, and the pitch, uh, event there. If you were searching for a T-shirt online, you would probably search something like, you know, white loose-fitting T-shirt with a V-neck under $60. You know, you would describe exactly what you wanted, and that really is how we've become accustomed to searching for things. Yet, for whatever reason, when it comes to what is the biggest, often most important purchase of our lives, we're stuck to those three or four criteria and maybe a couple of checkboxes further down the process, um, to try and find what is our perfect home, and, and again, ultimately probably the biggest purchase we'll ever make.
Kylie Davis: Okay, cool. I really like the sound of this, but what you're saying is that the web portals have basically trained us to select the features that we want as part of our search rather than actually thinking about the, the vibe. The vibe, not the good features.
Chris McGoldrick: Uh, yeah, I mean, it, it's that. I mean, again, diff- different portals around the world, even when it comes to being able to search by features, can be very limited with that too, and the ability to do that is only as good as the agent inputs.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: So in the US, for example, where they use multiple listing services to upload their listing, or Australia and New Zealand through the CRMs, it might be that they upload it. A lot of those don't have things like computer vision or automation of feature tagging, meaning that unless the agent is very particular and, um, accurate with the features that they include in their listing, the ability to find that property for a user, if it is the perfect match for them, is incredibly hard. So the approach that we've taken is that we integrate with existing real estate websites, which is a really key differentiator that we can come back to. And through that, we enable the user to come onto the website and describe exactly what they want, and we serve the best homes and most personalized search experience for them.
Kylie Davis: Okay, awesome. So I wanna dive into something that you just said. So basically the fault, the, the, the pain point that you're solving is that at the moment our ability to search for property is limited by the human being who is the agent identifying the features that may or may not be of interest to a potential buyer.
Chris McGoldrick: Yes.
Kylie Davis: But what you're saying is that AI can actually do this in a better way by automatically starting to identify features, 'cause you mentioned something called what, computer vision? Is that-
Chris McGoldrick: Computer vision, yeah. So that is something that we've built. We've built our own computer vision product that detects property images for key details and features. Um, but really the, the key way that we're solving it is by taking over the search bar on existing websites. Um, and for the user that enables the increased functionality and ability to describe using natural language what it is they want. Um, and through the integration we do with the real estate website, that's when we go through the process of ingesting all their data, understanding each of the different listings that they have in real time, the images, listing descriptions, locational data, and a range of other variables. And that's what enables us to provide the right match, the right listings to the right, uh, user.
Kylie Davis: If what I'm hearing is right, agent- agents- do agents need to do anything different? They don't, because you're sucking everything off their website. They're using their CRM or they're using their MLS if they're in the States exactly the same way it's appearing on their website. You guys are then putting a layer in between their existing models and the website. Is that right?
Chris McGoldrick: Absolutely. So it doesn't require anything additional from an agent point of view. So if we refer it back to that key focus we spoke about at the start, empowering home buyers and elevating real estate agents. So the home buyer piece, again, as we've alluded to, comes down to that user experience. So by you as a real estate company or an individual agent with a website, by you offering this on your website, offering a ListAssist integration where we take over the search bar, again, you enable home buyers, people looking for homes, to come in and get the most personalized home search experience they can get anywhere in the world. And in terms of the elevating agents piece, one of the significant upsides for agents here is firstly, you have the chance to, to win your customer and own them a whole lot sooner, right? 'Cause you're creating that improved experience that's gonna drive them to your website, hopefully, when they start their property experience, as opposed to a lead coming through a portal or the various other sources, right? This is a, a unique point of difference that creates this personalized, essentially world-first experience on your own website. And we see people, like I talked about the night of the, the, the pitch evening, talking about improving home search experience. But what everyone's doing is trying to get them over to their website, launching new portals or comparables. Whereas what we're doing is we're saying, this will enhance your brand. This will sit on your existing website and, again, enable you to win the consumer earlier and hold them for longer. For the agent in terms of elevating agents like we spoke of, by the time that they now get information on their lead, they know so much more about them because of the search experience. So the average real estate website now, if you go and search for a property, say, that you're interested in 5 Main Street, I will get a notification saying, "Kylie is interested in 5 Main Street." I won't know why you're interested, what it is that got you ending up on that page. Whereas if you come through a ListAssist customer, I'll know that Kylie wants a three bed with hardwood floors, a modern kitchen, doesn't wanna be further than 10 minutes from a Starbucks, and wants to be in said school zone. So you really are building a much more comprehensive picture. And obviously from an agent's point of view, your ability to come in and add value in our first interaction, if I have all of that additional information, you're a significantly improved experience that you're able to create as an agent, and your ability to bring more information and more listings that suit your criteria, um, you know, is, is a whole lot greater.
Kylie Davis: Awesome. Okay. You had me right up until 10 minutes from a Starbucks, but no, I'm with you. 10 minutes from a Starbucks, still too far, too close. Um, so it feels like though the... and maybe this is me being a Gen X, but we have been trained that if we wanna find a house, we don't Google it like we would Google a T-shirt. We, we literally go to a d- a, a reputed, um, website and then find it because otherwise who knows where you might end up. Are we-- Does there need to be a piece of training around home buyers that this is the new way to, that you can do it safely this way too? Or am I being paranoid?
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a really interesting point and obviously it's, uh, um, you know... for us a lot of our growth, um, across our range of products that we've had has been quite organic in the sense that, you know, we had an example in our office where over a period of one month, I think we had six or seven different apps, um, that people in our, in our teams used that had introduced AI offerings or AI chats.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, and I think that was really representative of the fact that people are becoming more and more comfortable with this way of, of engaging with brands, of, of searching for things. So the client education piece, uh, or sorry, consumer education piece is really almost taking care of itself just through the surge in AI offerings coming through, you know, most businesses that we're all dealing with.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, so we have found uptake to be really quick and, and immediate. Um, and of course, you know, you still can search through our search bar by address, by suburb. We still cater for all of that if you want to do that. We've had some customers that add us as, uh, an additional search bar, so you can toggle between if you, if you do have customers that want to, uh, you know, go to the traditional search where they start with a suburb and then maybe zoom in or out on a map. But, um, look, at the end of the day, with everything happening in AI and the speed of technology, uh, it's pretty crazy to think that in 2024 on most real estate websites you can't just go on and describe what you want in a house-
Kylie Davis: Yeah
Chris McGoldrick: ... and be served the best houses based on that, right? It's a, it, it's a reasonably strange thought given the speed of technology, uh, that we're experiencing right now.
Kylie Davis: That's very, very true. So Chris, tell us a little bit about, uh, uh, tell us a little bit about ListAssist. I know you guys are part, you, you won the, uh, PropTech Angel Investor Network Pitch Fest. You're part of Reach. But how, how long has the, has your PropTech been going for, and how big are you?
Chris McGoldrick: So it was around August 2022 that we launched.
Kylie Davis: Oh, okay.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, and sort of right from the get-go we, uh, had a focus on the American market. Just in terms of a, um, a scale point of view, it, it made a lot of sense. You know, there's somewhere between 10 and 15,000 active agents in New Zealand at any one time, where we're from, um, and upwards of 1.5 million agents in, in America. So we kind of figured if we could figure out-
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: ... the USP, um, that would, that would probably be a better, a better place to start. And look, what's transpired is with market dynamics there, like multiple listing services, with having buyer's agents and seller's agents, a lot of our offerings have suited that market really well. Um, and look, early on in our, um, I suppose American experience, we got investment from a, a guy named Gary Ashton, who's the owner of the number one RE/MAX team in the world.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: And that gave us a lot of immediate credibility over there and, and started to open some door for, doors for us. And he's continued to be, you know, really involved, um, as an advisor and investor since then. So that was a really good, uh, starting point. Um, and we've really just continued from there. Um, and more recently as we've been able to grow the team a little bit more, we've started to focus on expanding into countries like Australia.
Kylie Davis: Cool. Okay. So, so how big are you now? How many members in your team?
Chris McGoldrick: So our team size is only five. We're, we're super-
Kylie Davis: Oh, wow. Okay.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, yeah, all, all based here in Auckland.
Kylie Davis: Awesome. Okay, cool. And so who are you working with in Australia? Are you able to say?
Chris McGoldrick: So to be honest, the event that you and I were at, that was our first kind of real experience in, in the Australian market, and that was us just starting to dip our toes in. We were lucky that that was a great night with, uh, um, you know, some really strong personnel in attendance, so we've had a lot of opportunities start to come on the back of that. Um-
Kylie Davis: Yeah
Chris McGoldrick: ... so yeah, hopefully soon we can announce, um, you know, some Australian brokerages going live with ListAssist.
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Chris McGoldrick: Uh, so my background is in startups, not-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Chris McGoldrick: ... um, or none of them real estate specific. Uh, yeah, so one of the more recent businesses, um, was a company called Part Pay, which I was involved in launching in New Zealand, which was in the buy now, pay later space. Um, and that was sold to Zip in Australia, um, after-
Kylie Davis: Oh
Chris McGoldrick: ... a few years. And then when exploring kind of next, next thing, there were a range of different industries I was looking at. What, what I suppose drew me to real estate more than anything was there's no one easier to get a hold of than a real estate agent. Their phone number is everywhere. They all answer their phone. So the ability to essentially get market feedback, understand pain points in the industry was unlike any other industry I'd ever kind of explored before. You know? You're used to emailing info emails, trying to work out who the right person was, but every real estate agent answers their phone. Um, and answers it pretty quickly. So it was a really great market to go into to get some feedback and to understand where, you know, where you could come in and be effective.
Kylie Davis: Right. And I, and I'm quite intrigued about this idea, um, you are very unusual in, in your focus around, we're from New Zealand, but we knew that we, this market wasn't big enough for us, so we've gone straight for the, for the gold hoop in the US and we've invent- we've created the business around, around that model. Um, or, you know, around a model that we think will work in the US. How hard or h- how hard or easy was it to, to get to that point and to, to get to the US from Auckland?
Chris McGoldrick: Um, there wasn't a whole heap of science that went into it. It was, it was really, um, about I suppose just really simply step one was understanding the market size in the US versus New Zealand, right?
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: And I was confident that, you know, I didn't know exactly how the American real estate market was different, but I was confident it was gonna be different.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: And I, I didn't think that there was likely a scenario where we could prove the concept in New Zealand and then just roll out that same offering in the US, right? I thought if we're gonna figure out one market, we may as well figure out that one. Um, and literally was just googling real estate conferences in America. Um, I saw one that showed up in Las Vegas and just booked a flight and tried to figure it out from there really. Um, met Gary Ashton, as I mentioned to you, uh, at that event. Um, talked to him loosely about investing, which he was pretty non-committal on. I said, "What if I came to Nashville for a few days?" He kinda laughed. We booked flights and I think I... There's a reasonable chance he invested just to get me out of Nashville, but- ... that's not particularly important. He's in. Um, so yeah, really, I mean, worst case scenario, I came, I would come back and I suppose we'd try New Zealand or try something else, but, um, yeah. It was, uh, it was worth taking the chance.
Kylie Davis: Okay. So when y- So you guys were part of the Reach, uh, cohort in 2023, weren't you?
Chris McGoldrick: Yes. Yes.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, so you were very, very new.
Chris McGoldrick: And actually, um, by chance, well, not really by chance, I met Peter. He was an ambassador for the event that I went to.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, and I'd reached out to every ambassador, uh, at the event prior just to introduce myself and explain what I was trying to do and what I was there for. Um, and he was really great with the time that he gave me, um, and initial understanding he helped give of the American market. Um, and then from there we went into the Reach program the following year.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, okay. So what did you get out of the, being part of the Reach program?
Chris McGoldrick: Uh, obviously the, the network and connections, um, you know, in the US especially for us has been really helpful. That's kinda where it's been, uh, I suppose most applicable given our areas of focus. I think in the Reach Australia team too you have a set of really complimentary skillsets across the three key people that they have. Um, and we've found that to be really beneficial as well. Um, and obviously great connections within, you know, the class or cohort that you have. People that, you know, can help you because they've just got through, you know, similar challenges to what you're going through. Um, so a really nice sort of sense of community around that as well. Um, and with events like, um, the, the Reach Global event they have at the end of each year-
Kylie Davis: Okay, yeah
Chris McGoldrick: ... that was awesome too in terms of meeting people from around the world. Um, and again, it's, it's amazing the, the similarities in terms of issues you're, you're coming up against. Um, and, and it's a very collaborative environment, which has been awesome.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm. Fantastic. So, so what are the biggest challenges and the lessons that you've had so far in your two years of of starting up and launching straight into the US?
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah, so I think AI's a super, I mean, it's, it's very obvious AI's a super interesting space to be in right now. Um, one of the challenges is yes, it's, it's kind of on the tip of everyone's tongue, and everyone's very curious about it, but one of the things that it has done is it's enabled customers, uh, sorry, it's enabled, um, companies to run very slick demos or build very quick MVPs that don't necessarily work in scale. Um, and it's created a very noisy environment for a lot of the, the, you know, target companies we're trying to speak to that are being inundated with these AI companies or, or, you know, companies putting AI on their domains, whatever it may be. So it's quite noisy and, and, um, you know, by default people can be, um, I suppose pretty slow in making decisions and navigating the space and how they want AI to apply to their business.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: So the way that we've kinda gone about that is, you know, we've been fortunate we've managed to get some really good clients on board. Um, and we've really focused on nailing the execution for them and delivering essentially real world proof points, right? That this actually works. 'Cause a lot of the AI stuff we're seeing is, hey, if you sign up and give us this, we think we could do this, and by this time you might have that.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: And, you know, the best way that we find to counter that is to go, "Here's a customer we've got that's comparable to you that has X properties online. Here's the number of searches they've done. Here's how quickly our agents are selling those properties." So I think the key for us is just delivering those, you know, real life proof points. Um, and that enables us to, you know, kinda get through the clutter hopefully.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Okay. It, it's an interest- It is such an interesting space, the AI space. I feel like we need to be able to kind of- Almost grab a screen grab of the pictures that we're getting, put them into ChatGPT or Gemini and say, "Assess the, assess the value of this AI proposal for me."
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah.
Kylie Davis: Let's see what comes out of it. Where do you see AI going in the space in real estate?
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah, so for us, you know, a- and I have some family in real estate in New Zealand, actually. So I've, I've developed, I suppose, a really good appreciation for, um, the industry and the importance of, you know, great agents and, and exceptional auctioneers. I don't think... Well, our, our view is there's no threat to those any time soon, right? We talk a lot about trying to empower agents to focus on people, not process. Um, and you know, I sort of say when you think about the best agents you know, you don't think, "Man, Kylie is great at sitting down and writing emails." You know?
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm. No.
Chris McGoldrick: You tend to think, no, Kylie's great at being in front of people, negotiating, managing expectations, and getting deals done. So the tools that we bring to market for agents are all about empowering agents to spend more time doing that. You know-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Chris McGoldrick: ... we wanna capture as much of the process as possible. We have a, a really strong agent community that we've started to build as well, and we have some free tools for them like listing descriptions, social posts, content creation, all with that focus on empowering them to focus on people and not process. We wanna capture as much of that process for them as we can to enable them to do what makes agents great. So our view is, yes, there's gonna be AI tools that hopefully ListAssist are, are leading that drive. AI tools to improve their efficiency, but all with the view of e- empowering them to spend more time in front of people doing deals.
Kylie Davis: Okay. So that's a really interesting approach, isn't it? Because what we're seeing out in the market at the moment is a heap of new prop tech ideas and iterations coming up where the, the product is actually the social media post or the content creation or the, or the, um, the li- the writing of the description. But you guys are coming at it from, no, no, we're gonna make it easy for clients or c- for buyers to s- search for a property the way that they would just describe it to their best friend or their mum or dad or whoever. And then from that, a whole bunch of tools will come out that the AI can enable to make it easier. Is that correct?
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah. So, well, actually a little bit different than that. So when we did first go to market, we launched with things like listing descriptions and social media posts for agents.
Kylie Davis: That's what I thought you did when I was setting up this interview before I saw you at, at the, at the pitch night. Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah. So that, that was our initial focus. And look, we had really meaningful traction with that, again, especially in America. So, um, even just last year in 2023, listings that went to market on Zillow, for example, which is their biggest portal, with ListAssist written descriptions sold around 35% faster than the average listing in terms of days on market. Now, it's not the most perfect stat in the sense that as you might expect with a tool like this, it tends to be the better agents that are motivated to go and find these efficiency-type tools. But it is a strong representation of, you know, how good a job we've been doing with those. What we've found is we've found this product market fit in the B2B space, which is around the home search product on real estate websites, is we actually decided, you know what? This is more revenue for our business. Um, it's B2B, which tends to be a slightly easier, more stickier deal cycle as well.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: And given, I suppose again, the clutter in AI and real estate, we have a, we're really determined to be seen as, um, the most trusted AI business in the industry. So we thought a great way to go about that is to make all of those agent products free-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Chris McGoldrick: ... build that trust, get people using our products and get comfortable with them. And then quite organically, that switch has actually become a really strong top of funnel piece for our home search product as agents, you know, kind of have increased their awareness around what we do and get that trust in our products as well. Um, and then as I say, that's kind of led to a lot more interest around our home search product. So we've really just kind of flipped that model on its head a little bit.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. And, and I guess also it helps build trust in the AI to do the job that you're wanting it to do, right? 'Cause we all have heard stories about-
Chris McGoldrick: Absolutely
Kylie Davis: ... AI being delusional or making up facts. We were recently doing some tests with, um, with AI. We had a really fantastic transcript and asked, of a, of a presentation, and asked the AI to write it like a magazine, and it invented a journalist that had done interviews and, like, kept creating it was like-
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah
Kylie Davis: ... "We could never run this. Like, this sounds like-"
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah. You, you do have to be-
Kylie Davis: "... they were interviewed by Parkinson or something."
Chris McGoldrick: ... really careful. Yeah. It's, um, uh, there's certainly some danger to be had. And, and especially, like, again, in the, in the US market, we've found, you know, America to be an incredibly litigious place, so-
Kylie Davis: Yeah, yeah
Chris McGoldrick: ... misinformation over there, people are pretty quick to, uh, to instigate legal action. So-
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Yeah
Chris McGoldrick: ... uh, you know, they, they take things pretty seriously when it comes to that stuff.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, yeah. So tell me a little bit more about the computer vision that you mentioned or the capture that you guys are doing from imagery.
Chris McGoldrick: So we build our own computer vision in-house, and that's all around the processing and understanding of property images, as I mentioned earlier. And through that, we pull key details, um, key features, and are able to write image captions as well, which is actually a requirement in the US, uh, under the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: So that makes up a core part of our listing descriptions and really does a great job of protecting against that misinformation piece that you and I just spoke about. So, you know, in doing that, it's telling a much more accurate, relevant story of that home. With that computer vision piece, we've actually been able to sell that as a standalone product, too, um, to a multi- to, to multiple listing services in the US. Uh, we have four of those that we have signed now where we do all of their image compliance, image captions, and feature tagging. Now, the image compliance is really interesting. There's a range of different rules that each state has about what can and cannot be in images. You know, people, pets, all that sort of stuff is prohibited, and there's quite hefty fines that are, um, enforced over there for that. So we automate all of that process. So we signed a three-year deal with the Beverly Hills MLS.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: So for their 20,000 agents, every time they go and do a listing, we go through every image automatically to take any compliance breaches, do the feature tagging and image captions, as I mentioned as well. And all of that is really tied into the home search product too, because again, that computer vision makes up a key component, uh, of our home search as it understands every property image, um, you know, in real time.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. And I guess that's all really powerful metadata, right?
Chris McGoldrick: Absolutely. Yeah.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so Chris, who are your competitors in this space?
Chris McGoldrick: It's an interesting question. There's, there's a lot of people attacking the listing description and social media stuff-
Kylie Davis: Mm. Mm
Chris McGoldrick: ... as you mentioned, um, which again, we're now offering for, for free. In terms of the home search piece, we don't see any direct competition. And what I mean by that is, it's something I pointed out a little bit earlier, is the innovations in the home search, uh, space at the moment tend to be, "Hey, we've innovated in this way. Here's a new website to send people to," right?
Kylie Davis: Mm. Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: Whereas the approach that we've taken is all about helping enhance and strengthen your existing brand and your existing website to drive consumers there, so that you can win the customer earlier and have them start their property journey with you. So with that in mind, the home search innovation has been one that's been, you know, really great at getting industry buy-in. Because in the US, like, like every other country essentially, the portals have so much control, right?
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: Which seems to be gaining by the day. Uh, in the US, they can be taking commissions of 30, 40% plus on sales.
Kylie Davis: Wow.
Chris McGoldrick: So teams, agents, brokerages are very incentivized to be trying to win traffic and drive them elsewhere, and that's where the cost justification piece of home search is quite logical in markets like that. Because, you know, you think if, if you c- if you launch ListAssist home search on your website and that has just one person a year or one person every six months start their property journey on your website as opposed to a major portal, ListAssist pays for itself multiple times over, right?
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: Just with that.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: Just with saving that 40% commission or whatever that number is. So this home search product has been really good at getting industry support, um, and, and really good early adoption.
Kylie Davis: Hm. Let's, let's just sort of unpick that a little bit because for, um, listeners, Australian listeners who are not a- completely across the US market, here in Australia and in New Zealand we have basically a marketing budget that the vendor pays to go towards a property. But in the US you don't have that. The agent is responsible for all marketing. And so therefore the portals are run on commissions for leads, aren't they?
Chris McGoldrick: Yes.
Kylie Davis: Rather than charging you for a listing on the site. Because the US is also slightly complicated by the fact that every state, and in some cases there are multiple ones inside states, the multiple listing services or the MLSs, which are the agents' attempts to control and own their listing data. But then the portals sort of sit over the top of that and the MLSs feed the portals with all of their listings. Have I got that right?
Chris McGoldrick: Yes.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Yes. It's, it's quite, uh... it's quite complex and quite different, as I say. And I think, um, like I said to you, I, uh, I was confident the US market was gonna be very different to New Zealand. I probably didn't think it was gonna be quite this different.
Kylie Davis: Oh, yeah. It's a biggie.
Chris McGoldrick: But it has kind of validated the decision to, to start in America and try and navigate that. But yeah, because they can act as a buyer's agent too-
Kylie Davis: Mm
Chris McGoldrick: ... um, you know, they basically take their MLS feeds, whichever ones that they join, and take that property feed immediately for their own website. So, you know, if, if we started Chris and Kylie's Real Estate in Auckland tomorrow and built a website, we would have zero listings.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, until we went out and convinced someone to list with us, we couldn't have anything on our website. Whereas if you and I went and did that in Nashville tomorrow, started Chris and Kylie's Real Estate, we would join the local MLS, we would launch our website the next day, and there'd be over 30,000 listings on our website straightaway.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: All of which we could act as a buyer's agent for.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: And in terms of your point around the portals, yes, there's no listing fee. The portals all integrate with the MLSs. So the agent doesn't pay a listing fee to have that property listed on Zillow. It's the leads that come to them from those portals that they're charged a commission for, or they just pay a per lead. Depending on which the portal is, they pay a per lead fee. So it varies from portal to portal, but any lead or sale is gonna be expensive for an agent. Whereas obviously in New Zealand and Australia, I mean, a lot of cases in, in New Zealand, I can't speak specifically for Australia on this, but unless the agent asks where the lead comes from, they, they won't know, right? Like, there's no, no sort of trackability around that generally speaking. Uh, if they were just to, you know, call you on your cell phone. Whereas on a, a Zillow or a realtor.com, generally speaking the agent's details aren't on the listing.
Kylie Davis: Ah, okay. Okay. It then it, it gets directed to them and they... so they're tracking it that way. Okay.
Chris McGoldrick: Yes.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: And then the portal distributes it. Yes.
Kylie Davis: And so if, if Chris buys the property that Kylie had advertised on Zillow, um, and Zillow sent me your- ... details that it basically takes a commission out of the sale price-
Chris McGoldrick: Yes
Kylie Davis: ... on what you paid for the property.
Chris McGoldrick: Yes.
Kylie Davis: Boy, and see, you see here in Australia agents complain about marketing. About the marketing. The, the vendor paid advertising com- costs and how hard-
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah
Kylie Davis: ... that is to manage. Be careful what you wish for, people. I think that's the, that's the mo-
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah
Kylie Davis: ... that's the lesson there. So Chris, what's something that you know now that you wish you had known when you first started? It feels like you've had a g- a completely dream run.
Chris McGoldrick: Uh, oh, I, I certainly wouldn't say that. I mean-
Kylie Davis: I wanna hear the tea
Chris McGoldrick: ... uh, I probably wish that I could go back and tell myself two years ago that a lot of these new AI companies that you're worrying about and starting to lose sleep over, a lot of them are not gonna be here in two years.
Kylie Davis: Mm. Mm. AI. So, so what's your prediction for AI in the real estate space? Where do you think it's going to go?
Chris McGoldrick: Um, as I said, look, I don't think, um, it's gonna replace real estate agents. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think in our lifetime it's gonna replace them. Um, I think we're gonna see, though, that the best agents are using a lot of AI in their business.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: I think it's gonna make them so much more efficient. It's gonna enable them to spend more time doing the things that get deals done, which is being in front of people, as I say, negotiating, doing deals, managing expectations. Um, I think agents are gonna be able to do a lot more in time.
Kylie Davis: Mm. Okay. And I remember when I went to Inman, I don't know, must've been about 10 years ago now, I was on stage with a guy whose startup was a... Well, it was kind of like an iPad on a, on a, what are those stand-up wheelie things?
Chris McGoldrick: Oh, the, um-
Kylie Davis: And it did the walkthroughs, it did the inspections. You don't see not a huge market for that.
Chris McGoldrick: The automated walkthroughs.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Amazing.
Kylie Davis: And it was literally like a robot that was, um, a, like a, you know... You know the ones that you zoom around town on. A, not a Vespa, but a, um-
Chris McGoldrick: The little Segway-type thing.
Kylie Davis: Segway, that's the thing. Yeah, it was like a, it was like an iPad on a Segway. And the, um, real downside was, is it couldn't inspect two b- like two story two story homes. I shouldn't laugh. He's probably still around.
Chris McGoldrick: It doesn't work out how to use the stairs.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, it couldn't, yeah, they couldn't get it up the stairs. Do, do you think agents will be completely-
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah, I mean, I, I think, um... Yeah, I, I think for, for all the innovation happening, again, for 99.5% or, or whatever that number may be, for, for that number of people it's, it's always gonna be the biggest purchase they ever make in their lives. And I think ultimately they're always gonna want a human involved in that at some point.
Kylie Davis: Mm. Mm. And how hard or easy was it to deal with the MLSs in the US? So how many have you got on board now, are you working with now?
Chris McGoldrick: So we've got four on board now. Um-
Kylie Davis: Right. 'Cause they're all different, aren't they? They are all different.
Chris McGoldrick: They're all, all very different. Different in terms of size, different in terms of roles, um, and different in terms of process, and things like boards, and that sort of stuff as well.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, I mean, they, l- it varies from MLS to MLS. We've, we've been really lucky that the first one we signed was that Beverly Hills one I mentioned, and they've been really amazing.
Kylie Davis: Sounds quite prestigious, yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah, so they've been really amazing to deal with and, and gave us a real- really good kinda ticker credibility as well.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Chris McGoldrick: So, I mean, ultimately they took a chance on us, to be honest. There were other people competing in that, um, image solution space that we initially pitched to them. And as I say, they, they ultimately took a chance on us and, and it's been a relationship we've expanded, uh, a lot in the last, uh, sort of nine to 12 months. And, and they're a partner that we really value and love working with. So, um, we're actually working with them on how we expand further across the, the MLS network as well. So hopefully we have a lot more to announce in the coming months as well.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. And who else are you working with? Nashville, I'm assuming, or that kind of part of the world?
Chris McGoldrick: Um, yes, also working with, um, uh, another couple that we can't mention. They're gonna be announced-
Kylie Davis: Ah
Chris McGoldrick: ... I think the beginning of August.
Kylie Davis: Ah, okay. Okay. Fingers crossed. Um, and so Chris, what does the... What's it, what are your goals for ListAssist in Australia? Because one of the big, um, because one of the big complaints that agents have is that they want to be able to control their own data and have listing, or, you know, have inquiries come to their websites. And, and it, uh, and, you know, a lot of the things that you're solving for in the US are also valid here, even though the backend engine is, is different in how it, in how it works.
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah, so we're still working out exactly, um, I suppose what that strategy or I suppose the go to market more specifically, working out what that is in Australia. Um, our focus of being the most trusted AI business in the industry, that's consistent in every market that we enter. As you say, you know, what you mention about them trying to drive users to their website as opposed to the portals, that, that's consistent all around the world, right? Like, the portals just have so much power in their respective markets and, and there's such a push to be able to win the consumer earlier and, and hold them for longer. And again, you know, we really, in the US our experience has been really great industry support for those reasons, because we wanna drive people to your website. And that's a really key point of difference as opposed to, "Hey, aren't the portals awful? Why don't we send them to this website instead?" You know? Like, it, it's, it's kind of strange messaging. So-
Kylie Davis: Mm. Mm
Chris McGoldrick: ... we're really trying to empower agents and their own websites. So we're working through, um, I suppose a more formal go to market in Australia. As I said, on the back of my experience a couple of weeks ago, um, at the pitch night you were at, um, you know, we've had some really good engagement. So, uh, hopefully we'll be announcing, um, in the coming months some, uh, some initial Australian signings.
Kylie Davis: Okay. Awesome. And so what does the future look like for ListAssist? So you've got MLSs being announced. You've got Australian, uh, collaborations being announced. What else is on your plate?
Chris McGoldrick: So probably of, of most exciting news for us is, is we recently signed a deal with the largest privately-owned brokerage in, in all of North America to take over-
Kylie Davis: Ooh
Chris McGoldrick: ... their home experience. So that's a brokerage called Howard Hanna, which, you know, even just that brokerage is, is significantly bigger than, than New Zealand. Um, so- ... you know, that's a real kind of game changer for us. Um, we expect them to be live next month. Um, and, you know, in doing so, again, that just adds another layer of credibility for us in, in what can be quite a confusing AI space. So, um, for us, it's just more of the same. More, more great partners, um, coming and improving ourselves, delivering value, um, and entering new markets like Australia and hopefully some more in Europe as well.
Kylie Davis: Right. And so you're doing all of this with five people.
Chris McGoldrick: Yeah.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Five, five people that aren't getting a whole lot of sleep, but five people-
Kylie Davis: No, no. I was gonna say, and a, and a hell of a lot of robots in the background or AI in the background- ... I'm assuming.
Chris McGoldrick: Exactly.
Kylie Davis: Um, so how, how big are you seeing the business growing?
Chris McGoldrick: Uh, look-
Kylie Davis: Any sort of vision on that?
Chris McGoldrick: ... I'm not the sort of person that we're gonna put a, a cap on, on something like that.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Chris McGoldrick: Um, we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing and, and see where that takes us.
Kylie Davis: Okay. Awesome. Well look, Chris, it's been absolutely fantastic talking to you. Congratulations on the success that you've ha- that you're having with ListAssist. Um, ag- congratulations again on the, uh, the Pitch Fest win the other week. Um, and great to have you on the PropTech Podcast.
Chris McGoldrick: Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed it.
Kylie Davis: So that was Chris McGoldrick, founder of ListAssist, a Kiwi PropTech that is taking the US market by storm with its innovative natural language search functionality that works with existing real estate websites to redirect people away from the portals. Now, I hear about new AI solutions from real estate nearly every week, and I'm gonna confess that when I first heard about ListAssist, I put them in the, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Sure. Get AI to write your listings," um, basket with a very big yawn. But what I'm really impressed about with ListAssist is how they're using the listing visual inventory, so the photos of properties for sale, as the core asset that they extract data from, and this really is their secret sauce. It's the real genius, as it means that agents don't need to tick any more feature boxes or do anything new or different. The AI is extracting the data, and this, in my book, is what's really exciting. And the company's focus on delivering real-world proof points, building trust with their clients is really commendable, especially in this sometimes chaotic world of AI where lots of promises are being made, as well as their dedication to enhancing existing brands and websites rather than creating new platforms and trying to drive us into yet another direction. That's really refreshing and strategic. So look, well done ListAssist. Good luck with your ongoing expansion into the US, and we hope that we'll see you soon in the Australian market. Now, if you have enjoyed this episode of the PropTech Podcast, I would love you to tell all your friends or drop me a line either via email or LinkedIn or on our Facebook page. And you can follow this podcast on Spotify, Google Podcasts, Anchor, and Apple iTunes, and anywhere good podcasts are heard. I would like to thank my podcast producer, the fabulous Charlie Hollands, podcast website editors Jill Escudero and Shira Sexison, and our sponsors, HID, digital identification solutions for your building; Direct Connect, making moving easy; Dynamic Methods, the name behind Forms Live, REI Forms Live, and Realworks; ezipay, making collecting payments easy for PropTechs; and the PropTech Association Australia, Australia's industry body, which is supporting the flourishing PropTech community. Now, if you're an Australian or New Zealand PropTech who would like to be on the show, please drop me a line via LinkedIn or email kylie@proptechassociation.com.au. Thanks so much, everyone. Until next time, keep on PropTeching. Do you run a PropTech business or are you the founder of a PropTech? Make sure you join the PropTech Association of Australia. It's Australia's new not-for-profit association made up of tech people who are passionate about the property industry and committed to improving experiences in how we buy, sell, rent, manage, build, and finance property. Joining will give you access to events and networks across Australia and globally to help you promote and grow your business. Go to proptechassociation.com.au and follow the prompts to join.
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