Full transcript: Sonja Markovic — Evitat: making green home renovations less like a PhD
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This is an automated transcript of the episode, lightly edited for readability. Please excuse any errors.
Kylie Davis: Welcome to the PropTech Podcast. It's Kylie Davis here, and I'm delighted to be your host as we explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. It's so great to have you here and to share stories of innovation and opportunity across real estate, property, and building services. And the aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a PropTech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible across how we design, build, buy, sell, rent, and invest in property, and all of the associated behavior and activities around that. Now, none of this would be possible without our sponsors, so a big shout-out to the Direct Connect team, making moving easy; Dynamic Methods, the innovators behind the Forms Live and Realworks Forms; and the PropTech Association of Australia. Thank you for your support of the podcast. My guest in this episode is Sonja Markovic from an exciting new PropTech called Evitat, and they are making it easier to renovate and build homes using materials and services that are energy efficient and have strong green and strong health credentials. Evitat were the winners of the Most Innovative Startup in the Environment, Social, and Sustainability category of the 2023 PropTech Awards, and it has a great story. Evitat was born from the pain that Sonja experienced personally trying to restore and renovate a Queenslander that had been damaged by a cyclone, an experience that she says was like studying for a PhD. And with a new rating system on the cards to be introduced for established homes around energy efficiency, it is an area that we are going to see experiencing exponential growth and demand. So here to tell us all about it, Sonja Markovic, welcome to the PropTech Podcast.
Sonja Markovic: Thank you so much, Kylie, for having me today.
Kylie Davis: So I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today because Evitat were the winners of the Environment, Social, and Sustainability Most Innovative Startup. So congratulations on that win at the PropTech Awards.
Sonja Markovic: Thank you so much.
Kylie Davis: No, no, our pleasure. So let's kick off, um, 'cause I think you guys are working in such an interesting space, and there's so much happening in there, and I'm looking forward to talking about what some of that looks like as part of this interview. But what is the Evitat, um, elevator pitch?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So Evitat empowers renovators and owners to create healthy, low-carbon, and climate-resilient home improvements, retrofits, and renovations. Um, so if you want... So it's similar to a service book for cars, but the Evitat logbook or e-logbook allows renovators basically to track and measure the good decisions and turn them into sustainable home value, good for people and the planet. And the platform includes also, um, a renovator community, vetted responsible businesses, and enables really a circular ecosystem to educate and facilitate between growing demand and innovative, renewable, and regenerative supply solutions.
Kylie Davis: Awesome. So this is such an important part of, like... This is gonna be so important going on, isn't it? Because at the moment, or up until now, the way that we have renovated or upgraded property has been based on how can we make it worth more, but how can we ideally, you know, and what do we need to spend to do that? But it's really been around almost vanity or, or the perception of quality/luxury. It's not been around the green credentials of things.
Sonja Markovic: Absolutely. Um, so I think in the last two decades, um, we have shifted our perception of homes to be, um, around the bench tops and, um, so-
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Miele appliances
Sonja Markovic: ... yeah, I, I do pull that card all the time. Um, I think, um, the thing is, um, I think there are a couple of, um, um, contributions to it. It's also, um, that we have, um, been messaged something really, um, I, I think in, in a wrong sense, um, you know, to build by size. For example, you know, like, mm, a home-
Kylie Davis: Bigger is better
Sonja Markovic: ... multiple retreat rooms and parents' retreats and kids', uh, play areas and everything. Often enough these spaces are completely unused, uh, in the end, you know-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Sonja Markovic: ... or, um, basically just, um, you know, being left as, um, cluttered space-
Kylie Davis: Yep
Sonja Markovic: ... uh, storage, nothing else. And, and I think, um, but we need to consider that, um, each of these, uh, added spaces are, in the end, actually added material choices. And, um, that contains a huge proportion of embodied carbon. And in future we are going to face, um, a lot of changes, in particular around properties. The way how, for example, we might get, um, mortgages assessed and, um, the ability actually to, to access, um, funds and, um, the ability actually to, to get, um, some, um, credit loans and so on. So I think, um, our, on our insurance landscape is also changing with increasing climate risk. And all these considerations are, are going to happen at once.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: And this is the time where we need to really think carefully how do we renovate, how do we improve our homes? And maybe even reconnecting them to the, the bare essential and the purpose of homes. Um, we used to have homes really to, to, uh, you know, to live and to, to thrive as families or even as individuals and, and we used to live far longer in these homes.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: Nowadays it's all about resale value and, um, quickly changing and t- and turnovers and flipping properties- But it's also disconnecting us from, from the opportunity actually to create, um, a community around us, a place actually where we feel really grounded.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: And I think that can add a lot, um, into the, the wellbeing of our mental health as well. And, um, I think reconnecting it, um, to some sense of, um, yeah, the livability of, of these homes, but also being very clear, um, and more, I think, um, informed about, for example, material decision, um, home performance. What, what is actually a thermal comfort? It's not equal to your lounge and, um, just being comfortable. And, and all these, um, aspects actually matter. And I think in future, um, they will even matter more in, in the wake of climate change, and therefore, um, become act- or probably even shift the values of homes-
Kylie Davis: Mm
Sonja Markovic: ... towards those ones, um, which are more climate resilient and, um, which don't actually are at risk, um, to have massive, um, maintenance costs and ongoing, um, costs in- involved in general.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. So we learned that during COVID, didn't we? The importance of home being safe, like being a place where your family, you know, could be safe from the outside world, and where you could... where you wanted to be. And we got a really clear understanding during that period and during all the lockdowns as to what a, a healthy and a mentally healthy work, you know, living space was like compared to being, you know, in a, a small, i- a small, you know, a tiny unit or, or things like that.
Sonja Markovic: Yeah.
Kylie Davis: We saw really big, uh, differences in, in how people coped during lockdown based on how safe and comfortable and secure they felt inside their home.
Sonja Markovic: Yes.
Kylie Davis: Um, yeah.
Sonja Markovic: Exactly.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Sonja Markovic: I, I think that, that really, um, emphasized on, on the true purpose of homes and really, um, made people think. And although, um, we are halfway back to business as usual, but I think we shouldn't completely, um, go down that pathway because the challenges we are globally facing are immense. And, um, and I think, um, it's really time to, to take that path and d- and actually joining, rather being a part of, of, of the solution. And, um, there are two factors, I think, um, on the private level where you can make a big, big, um, positive impact and contribute to, um, to a solution around climate change. And that is, um, what, what you decide on your finances and how you invest. And the other part is, um, the investment in your home and, um, including all renovation choices. Because, um, if you're, let's say if you don't extend, um, massively your home size, um, you will immediately cut out probably 20 to 50 years of carbon, um, emissions. And, and I think, um, to consider those kind of things also for, for our kids, for future generations, and, um, it's something which feels good, and I think we can build up on, on that, um, feeling and sentiment as well. Um, but in general, we need to make it visible, and that's exactly what, what we are working on, um, with the e-logbook. Um, it allows actually to visualize these good decisions. And, and that's ha- that in itself has a lot of value also for future buyers because they know exactly that this property has been de-risked and, um, has added, um, quality levels which other homes don't have.
Kylie Davis: Right. So, so let's just pull apart, because in the p- in the past when we've been renovating, well, I don't know about you, Sonja, but the only thing more painful than buying or selling a property is renovating or building one, right? There, there is so many decisions you have to make. There's so many balls in the air. And, um, and price doesn't always determine quality. Like in, you know, it's, it's very easy to pay too much for things that are not worth it. It's very, um, and it's very hard some- it's very opaque sometimes to understand what the, what the, the quality and especially the green quality or the energy efficiency quality of some things are-
Sonja Markovic: Yeah
Kylie Davis: ... in the space. How, how is Evitat... How does Evitat work in helping renovators understand or builders understand that space?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So first of all, um, we are building a platform solution which i- which has, I think, integrate, uh integrated, um, a circular business solution. So we are bringing in vetted, responsible businesses who are committed to trust and transparency.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: So with, with that element, um, we connect that to the logbook and, um, connect actually nee- your personal need and aspirations. Where do you want to see yourself with your home, you know, in a few years? Or what is actually your need? You might have certain health aspects, um, you want to attribute. Or you, um, you have more aspirations, you know, to really decarbonize with every step possible. Like all these things matter. So instead of going in into a very, um, complex, let's say, modeling of homes with every single material choice, we have limited to those ones which we regard as sustainable and good, and that was developed, um, with, um, some really profound expertise, um, from the industry side. And, um, allows us actually to, to track and measure, um, in the sense around six core categories. So to, to simplify that process, it's around health, affordability, um, water and energy efficiency, comfort, social-environmental impact, and carbon. And, um, that allows us also to, uh, to understand where these needs are, where these aspirations are, and then connect with possible solutions. And, um, with that give, uh, it gives also the opportunity to, um, add continuously certain home improvements you have made or you are aware of, for example, from a previous owner. And, um, if that has been, for example, processed through the platform, that information, um, around material, um, information, but also, um, installer information, even installer certificates, warranties, all of this will be digitally stored in your logbook. And you are creating over time this repository around, um, the information, um, how your home has improved in terms of your energy and water efficiency, um, but also how or which elements have contribute actually to decarbonize operational carbon or even, um, in the best case possible, if you have chosen, for example, biomaterials for your home improvements or for an extension or something, that will also be captured and attributed to the, the general impact. So and that's really valuable information for a lot of additional stakeholders, um, during renovation because you have, um, finance partners, um, you have organizations who, um, give you mortgages, um, you have insurances, and you have also local council. All of them are really interested in how you are making these better decisions, and that's exactly what we are extracting.
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Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So, um, we have been debating this for a very long time in the beginning.
Kylie Davis: Right.
Sonja Markovic: But, um, as simple as that, um, I think there's a real big, um, black spot on residential, and it's really not easy to navigate. Um, it's still not easy and hasn't improved over years. And we think, um, and that's exactly why we are focusing largely at the moment in our communication towards the residential domestic market. We are, um... Our direct customers are actually the suppliers and professionals because they become member of the platform, and then we connect them through recommendations, the logbooks, and, and so on. Um, but the audience we are talking to are actually, um, residential consumers.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: So we are, um, empowering them, giving them, um, value attribution to their decisions and, um, and connecting them also with some benefits, um, maybe, uh, you know, finance solutions, um, maybe in future, maybe, um, also local government incentives. Um, there's also other opportunities to, to explore, but also the ability actually to understand, for example, um, what are high efficient, um, and performing material choices which come completely, um, untreated, for example, are really healthy for your home and for your family. Um, so all these aspects play a role, and we provide that information in, in terms of webinars, um, where we invite, for example, one responsible business but also always, um, like a renovator or homeowner who has experienced that material or even renewable product solution and can actually talk about, um, how it, um, was, for example, during installation and even after that, um, how it changed maybe the comfort of the home or other aspects, um, of needs and aspirations
Kylie Davis: Okay. So you're sort of B to B to C-
Sonja Markovic: Yeah
Kylie Davis: ... but you're talking to Cs, so, and funded by B.
Sonja Markovic: Exactly.
Kylie Davis: Okay.
Sonja Markovic: Right. Yeah, exactly. So it's, um, on, on that side, um, it is also, um, a one-to-many revenue model. So-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Sonja Markovic: ... there are aspects we are currently... Like, of course, there's a membership fee, um, which is fairly straightforward, but there are certain aspects around data, for example, and that's what we are going to explore with, with the next stakeholders we are currently in, in talks. Um, for example, from the finance side, um, as well as, um, there are early talks also in, in the real estate sector, um, and, and other, um, components.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Sonja Markovic: So that's a really interesting, um, process and, and possible also very interesting pilots to organize.
Kylie Davis: So you guys are less than five years old, I'm assuming, 'cause you won the startup category. How, how old are you? What kind of ex- inspired the, the... What inspired you getting it started? Tell us the story.
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. Um, so architecture was always something we were very interested in, although none of us has actually that pathway in, in their careers. Um, but we were working like 20 years earlier, um, with a startup, um, uh, from the architectural side, um, in Frankfurt. Um, and during that time, we also realized, for example, the pain points, um, of architects, how to source and find the right, um, fit outs and, and fittings and, um, and they created actually a huge database online da- or digital database, um, around office solutions. And that was a very exciting, um, an experience to, to work with them. And then, um, when we moved to Australia, um, I was working briefly with Green Magazine and had this real deep inside view, um, into the pain points of the residential, um, consumer side. There was a real outcry, um, to have more trust and transparency into the market and ac- actually a better access even to, to understand what, what does the market even offer. Um, are there any, for example, green products, and how can we even understand green products? What, what are they, and how can we make the decisions around? So with that, um, like, um, information, there was already an, a certain idea in, in my head. Um, but I think when the pandemic hit, um... So even previously, sorry, um, 2017, there was one event which put us actually directly into the renovator shoes. Um, we have a house in Queensland, and it was very badly damaged during a cyclone, and we decided to build back better. And then, uh, during that time, it felt pretty much as doing a PhD in all kinds of things-... like material compositions-
Kylie Davis: Oh
Sonja Markovic: ... energy efficiency, and I felt so overwhelmed. And coming with my background around user experience and system thinking, I'm like, "Why is it so difficult?" Like, "Why, why do we make it actually so difficult for someone who wants to do a good thing and improve the quality of, of their homes, um, to the point where people might even say, 'I don't care anymore,' you know? Just leave it all completely to the builder, and whatever he decides or, or she decides, you know, it, it will be accepted." And that's exa- exactly the problem. A lot of people are not aware that, um, you know, when I hand over that decision point, it, it won't be anymore in, around my needs and aspirations. It will be all about the profits I can generate as a builder.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: So I think the, the... we need to come to, to a balanced, um, point where, um, I as an owner need still to have certain ownership, um, around these decisions, while also the builder plays a crucial part in the process, of course. So, um, bringing that together is very powerful and can really enable a complete different way, um, of looking at homes and in particular when we make these decisions to invest in renovation and in, like for example, what do we want to invest in? And we had, for example, um, a renovator from Perth, and she made, um, a very conscious decision to invest in wood fiber insulation, untreated, because of health reasons. And it's a huge investment to do compared to the standard material choices. But she made it up on, on that decision. It's better for her health. It's better for her kids' health, and she was adamant. Um, she really wanted to do this. So the builder had to be upskilled in the use of that material, but now he knows how to use it and can actually recommend it even to other clients. So there is a multiple effect, um, we can utilize, and I think that's a really nice way to look into more regenerative, um, material choices, biomaterial choices, and, um, really decarbonize even the embodied carbon sector.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: And then capturing that information again in the logbook, um, for future buyers because, um, it would be f- Like fantastic. If, if you know, for example, your home has... is completely, um, you know, let's say, um, there's nothing with asbestos. You know that, um, every new corner, um, has been chosen very carefully with natural, um, regenerative materials, biomaterials, and, and so on, and there's nothing harmful in it.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm. So there's a couple of things that I'm, I'm... There's a couple of things that this is, is kinda bringing up. The first is, is that I, I love your comment about needing a PhD in order to try and make these decisions, 'cause it... There's n- Owning a home is such an adult thing to do, and there's so much homework required in just about anything that you have to do with it, isn't there? But at the same time, the cost usually of the mortgage or the fun- financing to do this work takes up so much time in terms of work time that you usually don't have any spare time by the time you've, you know, dealt with a couple of kids, and the shopping and, you know, cooking dinner and all of that sort of stuff that needs... And having a relationship with your partner and all these things that need to happen at the same time. Who has time to do a PhD in renovating to be green?
Sonja Markovic: Exactly. Exactly.
Kylie Davis: And yet, and on the other hand, as a, as a society, Australian homeowners are very keen on doing the right thing. And because we know that because of the number of solar rooftop, you know-
Sonja Markovic: Yeah
Kylie Davis: ... rooftops that we have. We're one of the highest per, per capita. So we, we know that there's a huge interest in it. If I go onto your website, what is the sort of thing that I see? What, what would... So I, I'm a, I'm a homeowner who's thinking about doing some building work or upgrading my home. What... Where do I get started?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. That's, that's a great question. So first of all, I think it's an invite, um, to understand what, what global problem do we face and what role your decisions can make. I think, um, it's an invite to, to become part of that solution. And even if that means you are starting off, let's say with a solar system or you are interested in a hot water heat pump because you know your old hot water system is about, you know, to, um, reach the limit. All these things, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, a major renovation or really one, um, let's say one, one, um, heating or cooling solution which needs to be replaced. Um, all of these aspects matter in the end. And you can start off with one thing, and you can basically, um, look, for example, for responsible businesses e- even, um, mentioned on the marketplace. You will be seeing, um, these particular benefits. If you start, for example, a logbook, it will also connect you within the marketplace, um, the, the certain products or material solution, um, will be displayed as recommended in your logbook, um, based on your needs or aspirations. So there's a vice versa, um, connection so that you can make sense, um, while you're getting educated what is actually a sustainable home. So it is, um, reconnecting it to the right material or product choices as well as, um, very soon also to the right professional, um, in your area. So that's really that holistic system, and you can start off from the first small step if you want so. And even if that means you're just adding and logging maybe one thing you have done in the logbook, that's enough to start off. I think it shows you immediately, um, in- within the impact meter, you know, what it contributes to, and it creates this sentiment similar to when we, um, added our solar system in Queensland. It wasn't just about the, the cost savings. That was, of course, one aspect which was also a decision driver. But the, the fact that we are basically harnessing a sun, um, sun's energy, and it felt so good in, in that moment. And, and I think these, um, sentiments we can really use and create, um, a large community who is prepared actually to play a significant part in that solution. So far, that conversation has been very, um, driven, you know, by industry experts over years talking about, you know, how the industry can be actually, um, the driver of solutions. But reality is it hasn't really, um, changed much within the industry, and the industry hasn't actually shifted it to become an entire solution. We need both sides. We need the demand and the supply, and we need the professionals in as well because this is-
Kylie Davis: Mm
Sonja Markovic: ... um, I would say, a collective effort to really change the systems. And that's what, what we are hoping actually to en- enable and facilitate, um, without, um, making it too complicated, rather having actually a place to know, um, these are fairly transparent, um, material choices. I, I can see, for example, you know, through the, the details, um, uh, there's an extract of benefits, but I can also dive deeper if I want to, to see even the EPDs and all testing results and everything. Um- That gives me trust and transparency in that choice and decision, um, as well as learning, for example, what is the experience of, um, homeowners who have used, for example, a product and, and I can make that very informed decision and either proceed with, with a certain, um, decision or not. Yeah. But at least I have the feeling, um, it's all about me and the ownership around it, and I don't necessarily need to install it. So-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Sonja Markovic: ... I'll get the expert in. Um, and, and the same applies, I think, also, for example, if you go for goal settings in the logbook, you can have far better conversations even with, um, let's say a designer, a building designer or, um, your passive house, um, architect or the general architect around sustainable homes because it is shifting a little bit, um, the conversation from, again, from some, you know, very specific interior or exterior, um, design elements really to comprehensive understanding and prioritization around sustainability and the needs embedded in it and aspirations.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, I love that. I love, too, the fact that it's... Because, you know, one of the many conversations, and, and listeners to the podcast know that my husband and I have had many domestics around for around renovating and building and buying and selling and all those sorts of fun things you do when you've been married for 30 years. Um, so, but, but while you wanna do the right thing, the question has always been, gosh, how much is this gonna cost us? And then, but you know that when you do the right... But I love this whole idea that you don't have to do everything all at once. You can just make the decision, look, from today, the choices that we make are gonna change. And because we've got this thing that needs to be upgraded, our s- our hot water or the air conditioner or, you know, things are wearing out in the property-
Sonja Markovic: Mm-hmm
Kylie Davis: ... let's just do the, let's start one by one to make better quality decisions. And having a resource like Evitat there to help you under- to not need to do the PhD in order to make the better decision.
Sonja Markovic: Yeah, exactly.
Kylie Davis: Right? Yeah, that's...
Sonja Markovic: Abso- absolutely. Um, y- a- absolutely. There's no, um, you know, it's not a linear journey, I think. And, and to acknowledge really it is a journey. It's a learning journey. Um, when we, when we had, for example, the damages, um, at our home in, in Queensland, um, I was, you know, thinking, oh, yeah, we just need insulation in, in the walls because they removed the walls, um, just to make sure that we didn't cap- um, basically encapsulated moisture within the walls, um, structures. And, um, and I was really pushy at that time, um, with the appointed builder, you know, to, to get insulation in, and he didn't inform me. I wasn't educated enough to understand, well, without a moisture barrier, you might actually create a bigger problem
Kylie Davis: Yeah. You wanna end up with more.
Sonja Markovic: ... than what you have intended to improve. And now I know that, and, um, I still don't know if they have put in any, any insulation or not. I'm actually hoping they haven't because it might create more issues. Um, but I... You see, this is exactly where I think, um, it doesn't matter. Once you are on that journey and once you have done one step, for example, um, and like I said, you know, it might start with a solar system, might start with a hot water heat pump, or you are maybe further, like here, for example, around, um, Victoria, and you're freezing cold in winter and you start off-
Kylie Davis: Yeah
Sonja Markovic: ... with, you know, insulation, adding insulation in your roof cavities or something. It's fine. And even if that's the only improvement you are investing in, into that home, but knowing that it's captured and knowing that you can actually show it to a future buyer will create added value to it. And, um, I'm so sure about this because we have, um, certain, like a, a changing landscape, I think. Um, there will be certain things coming in place, um, for example, around mandatory disclosure of climate risk. Um, we will... That will shift really the perception of, um, quality improvements around, um, homes performance, energy performance. But in general, you know, have you added actually in addition, um, to your thermal envelope? W- what is even a thermal envelope? Yeah. So we will have more of these conversations in future, what that means, and how can I actually improve. And that's exactly, I think, um, where we contribute. A platform which has a strong community, um, which is growing, which has, uh, free webinars. The logbook is pretty much for free to start with. You can log your improvements. You can, um, use codes, and there will be a lot more coming in the next, um, few months. And then in the end, whenever you're ready, you can then create, um, a sustainable home report, which will be in future, um, integrated with real estate platforms and really inform buyers in a comprehensive way, um, what have you invested, and that can be, um, translated definitely in property value.
Kylie Davis: Okay. I love that This episode is sponsored by EasyPay. EasyPay makes collecting proptech payments easy. As one of Australia's leading subscription payment providers, EasyPay is helping real estate and proptech businesses to improve rental collection rates, transform arrears management, and increase cash flow. Built for integration with a focus on partnerships, EasyPay's platform works seamlessly with your existing proptech software, giving you access to industry-leading features that enable complex billing and settlement to support trustless business models. Discover the power of payment automation and leverage one of the first platforms to enable the pay to payment solution at easypay.com/proptech. The, the thing I, I wanna just pull apart that real estate, that, you know, that, that report that you would give to an agent. Is that something that through Evitat as a homeowner I can produce so that I can educate my agent, or should I also be expecting agents to understand more about this space so that they can help me get the most for my home when I go to sell it with all of these credentials behind me?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So, um, it is, I guess, both. Um, because when, when we make these things, um, more visible, even if, if they are listed in a report, if we supply, um, in the end, you know, also the evidence, um, install or installation certificates and so on, this becomes, um, not just additional information. We are also immediately, um, actually increasing information, um, which is valuable for those ones who seek that information. And so far we have heard even from, um, the big real estate platforms, for example, that there is an increase actually in demand and, um, search for, for certain sustainable criterias around homes.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: Maybe, um, you know, like solar is very obvious. But-
Kylie Davis: Yeah
Sonja Markovic: ... I've seen a lot of property listings where you see, for example, a, um, hot water heat pump, but it's not mentioned anywhere, you know?
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: Um, probably because the real estate agent doesn't know how to identify and what, what's the difference between, you know, a gas hot water system and a hot water heat pump. I don't really think, um, this is something to, to leave on a real estate agent's shoulder to validate that information entirely. Um, I think we should capture that information at the point of install or wh- whenever, um, that part happens really.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: Um, and, uh, is attributed actually to that particular property.
Kylie Davis: Awesome.
Sonja Markovic: So that's exactly, um, how the platform even works. Um, for example, let's say you order, um, a hot water heat pump. That all automatically goes into your, um, like logbook as a client of that company and, and you can then continue even over time adding things, um, whatever you have done, but within the sustainable home criterias. Let's say you have, um, like two years down the track you have renovated all your bedrooms and you have chosen, um, complete VOC free paints, um, that can also be added in the logbook. So you are really creating that, um, repository of information around it. And with that you will showcase improvement in, um, energy efficiency, maybe water efficiency if you have emphasized on that as well. Um, and then there's a drawdown of course in operational carbon. Like I said, um, if you have made even, um, specific material choices, that will also be captured and contributing also to embodied carbon.
Kylie Davis: Fantastic. So, so we know there is talk of rating a re- a residential rating system for energy efficiency of properties coming down the path, and that's probably gonna be upon us very quickly in the next sort of 12, 18 months.
Sonja Markovic: Yeah.
Kylie Davis: I guess this is a... Evitat is a fantastic tool to help homeowners understand how to go from a, a two-star rating up to a four-star rating, or even up to a seven-star rating, 'cause my understanding is that there'll be about seven stars in it in the end. Um, what, what other advice would you give people, Sonja, who are, who are looking to make a difference in their homes?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So look, I, I think, um, I would definitely, um, like again, I think there's... 'Cause I probably also changed my perspective a lot. Um, I, uh, you know, like if, if I'm looking back 20 years, um, like I had always this, um, this tendency, you know, to love, um, big spaces, in particular mid-century moderns. And like, you know, there's so many influences. Um, but I, I do think, you know, w- in particular when, when you have a family and you have the first time that responsibility about, um, a new life and you really want to make sure that the environment you're creating is healthy, um, that brings in so many aspects, you know, and the way how you choose even, um- The, you know, all the little things for, for babies. Um, you're, you do put attention then as well into the living spaces and how they, they are created with what kind of materials, and how... Are they comfortable, you know? Do you constantly need to, um, you know, use, for example, um, some additional, um, strong heating sources or, or cooling sources to keep them comfortable, or is that actually not required because we have a really well-performing home? I think, um, we shouldn't also forget, if, if you have, um, an underperforming home, it will... It basically wastes your, and drains all your-
Kylie Davis: Costs more money, right?
Sonja Markovic: Exactly. It's su- such a waste, you know? And a lot of people are current, in the current situation actually, with the, um, costs of living actually rising, they are already at, at, um, breaking point. And a lot of families are really suffering un- under that. Um, that means also there's, um, you know, rising depression and anxiety around, um, not being financial stable. It can cause so much actually in, in terms of tensions between families.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: And totally unnecessary because, um, the homes should be actually a safe space, and-
Kylie Davis: Mm
Sonja Markovic: ... something which doesn't cost the earth. Um, I do use the sentence from my, um, very lovely, um, colleague, um, Simona Schenker, who is a Passive House architect. And, um, she's such an expert, and she uses it in, in the sense really to, to think of affordability around your home.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: You don't necessarily need, um, you know, for, let's say four, um, four people household size, a huge area. You need something which works well for you, and you need something which, um, is affordable, uh, in the long run as well. And if, if you're facing every winter, you know, monthly costs of 500 to $800, it's a huge, um, drain of, of your, um, pocket money, yeah?
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: So I think, um, we need to consider these things, and we need to have a little bit more awareness what actually a quality home is.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: And, um, by creating this awareness, we immediately start also judging differently, I think, properties in the market.
Kylie Davis: Yeah.
Sonja Markovic: And that will create then immediately also a demand on the real estate side, um, for identifying these features and criterias in a better way.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Yeah.
Sonja Markovic: So that's how-
Kylie Davis: Yeah
Sonja Markovic: ... I think we, we can pull these triggers, um, on both sides and, um, increasing the demand, transparency, and, um, really delivering the right criterias to identify.
Kylie Davis: Fantastic. So look, Sona, I could talk to you about this all day. Just, just quickly, how many people are in your PropTech? How big are you guys, um, on the basis that you are still very new?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So we are a small team of five here in Melbourne-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm
Sonja Markovic: ... and we have two overseas, um, developers.
Kylie Davis: Yep.
Sonja Markovic: Um, and, and that's it pretty much, um, at the moment. Um, we are planning actually to grow over the next 12 months with at least, um, two additional staff members overlooking also sales and, um, other areas.
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm.
Sonja Markovic: But for the moment, um, that's the size we are operating on.
Kylie Davis: Okay.
Sonja Markovic: And, um, yeah, it works.
Kylie Davis: And your, your co-founder, who's your, who's your other co-founder?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. So we have a- so we are three co-founder. Um-
Kylie Davis: Mm-hmm. Give them a shout-out
Sonja Markovic: ... we have Sri Vaathi, who is, um, overlooking in particular our tech side of things, and then Amin Tofighnia, who is overlooking in particular operation and business, so... And that works really well.
Kylie Davis: Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, look, um, and what do you think is... Just to, to wrap up, what, what's your roadmap? What do you see coming down the pipe that you guys are personally as Evotak gonna be dealing with over the next sort of 18 months to three years?
Sonja Markovic: Yeah. Um, that, that's a great question because, um, we, we were diving deep into this aspect. Um, we have already elements of, uh, you know, asking, for example, for your postcode because we are mapping that against your climate zone. And we want to dive deep into the, um, climate zone-specific recommendations.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: Um, and that will be empowered, um, also with a huge knowledge base around, um, with AI components and really, um, enabling actually more profound, um, climate zone relevant, uh, recommendations.
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: Um, with that comes also, you know, the aspect of, um, local supply, for example, which we really want to support as well, as best as possible. Um, but if, if we have a local manufacturer, and if the products are really great, um, why not, you know, giving them also, um, the chance to grow with this growing demand in, in green building materials and renewable solutions?
Kylie Davis: Mm.
Sonja Markovic: Like, we have come across, um, really great companies who are actually, uh, manufacturing here in Australia, and, um, I think with a very social responsible and equality model as well. And I think, um, once you are aware of that, um, you have the opportunity really to support these companies. And, um, and they are enabling s- in some cases, you know, a complete shift from- Even, you know, previously maybe being, um, fossil fuel depending in, in a certain industry and shifting now completely to renewables. Others are, um, really, um, investing into biomaterials and, um, fast regrowing supply, for example. I think these opportunities are really great, and we should have, um, an awareness around and really support these companies.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Fantastic. Well, look, Sonja, it's been absolutely amazing talking to you today. Thank you so much for telling us about Evitat.
Sonja Markovic: Thank you.
Kylie Davis: And congratulations again on your win at the PropTech Awards recently. Um, and, um, and great to hear about Evitat and how you're helping us make our homes more efficient and more affordable and more livable, and also saving the planet. I think that's awesome.
Sonja Markovic: Yeah.
Kylie Davis: Yeah. Thank you.
Sonja Markovic: Thank you so much, Kylie.
Kylie Davis: Yeah, thanks.
Sonja Markovic: And, um, yeah, it was a pleasure actually being interviewed by you and, um, telling that story, of course.
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